021: Category Kings and the James Cameron Grail with Christopher Lochhead (Part 2)

0:00 Christopher: Even if you like watches that are very similar in a theme, in a category, mine are dive and tool watches, don't try to buy a watch that does everything every time. David: Welcome to Watch Smarts, where smart people get smarter about watches. I'm your host, David Newman. Let's jump right in. Earlier, right before we flipped on the mics, Christopher, you, you said, "Guys like us need a place to talk about watches." Christopher: Yeah.

0:40 David: Like, like, watches need a community- Yes … to be like… And, and so share more about that. Christopher: So since I, you know, this is my 2.0 watch run, and I think I'm on it now for life, um, but we'll talk about collection building if you want. It's kind of an interesting dilemma that's kind of one of the greatest first-world problems. But we now live in a world where nobody gives a about watches. You know, when I first started buying watches, people noticed watches. Everybody in business, 'cause I was an entrepreneur at 18, wore nice watches or, or, you know, some kind of a watch. Today there's a lot of people of course, who don't wear a watch. You don't need to wear a watch. Your phone tells you what time it is, and most of us always have our phones with us.

1:22 And of course the Apple Watch is roughly f- half of the entire watch market now, the smartwatch. And so most people are wearing no watch or an Apple Watch or some other smartwatch, so nobody really even notices or gives a fuck anymore. That's a bummer for me. I, I don't care about the noticing part, but, like, I w- I was on a plane yesterday and there was a young couple sitting next to me, and the husband or boyfriend had on a, uh, Datejust, like, just like my dad's, but with a bl- with a black face, not the blue face, and it looked great on him. I don't know how old he was, late 20s maybe. Wonderful looking young couple, very friendly, very nice. And at the end of the flight I said to him, "Hey, man, thanks for wearing a real watch." And look, I get all the benefits of an Apple Watch.

2:09 My mother turns 80 this year. I bought her an Apple Watch. There's incredible features in there for your wellbeing, one in particular for somebody her age. If you fall down and it can't reach you for a minute, it dials 911. It calls me. You know, there's incredible benefits to some of this technology, so I'm not on any of that. I'm a technology guy. I've spent 40 years building technology categories, companies, and products. And hell will freeze over before I replace with that. Will there be a day that I might consider wearing one on my right arm for going to the gym or sleep or some other things? Maybe. But, uh, you are not going to find an Apple Watch on my left wrist, NFW.

2:53 My wife has one. She lo- everybody, they all love it. Not me. Not doing it. Yeah. I, I'm, I'm old school. I'm gonna stay old school. I appreciate the tech. And so to get back to your question, Dave, since I started buying watches- We've gone from a world where everybody had one, was something that people did notice and talk about to virtually nobody even notices, never mind ever says anything to you about it. So those of us who love watches, we now don't get to talk to people in the IRL about watches 'cause nobody's paying attention. So if you wanna get into it and you wanna share your collection, you wanna see other folks' collection, you wanna talk about watches, you wanna talk about which watch did you take when you went to, you know, Brazil or, you know, all the stuff that people who wear watches like to talk about.

3:40 You know, the wrist shot of the day- David: Oh, yes Christopher: this is a thing we do. Oh, yeah. And so we like to share photos, we like to share stories. Of course, we all have questions. Right now I'm wearing a Blancpain, which we can talk about, the Fifty Fathoms. And when I was thinking about buying that watch- I talked to guys online who had the watch. I asked all kinds of questions about the watch. I hadn't s- I bought it having never seen one in the wild. David: Really? Christopher: Yeah, I'd never seen a Blancpain in the wild, and I bought it. And boy, am I glad I did. And, and so all of those kinds of things, sharing watches, talking about watches, talking about watch decisions, what should I wear, what should I buy, what should I sell, y- you know, what do you think of my collect- All these crazy things that make no sense to anybody else, nor should they, by the way.

4:27 David: Yeah. Christopher: But collectors of things and people who enjoy certain kinds of things, uh, we like to hang out with each other and, and in, because in the IRL, there's very few people who care about this stuff, we go to online. And if you can find an online group that's really good that is not full of fake bots trying to get you to invest in some fake crypto bullin Qualalala Ding Dong to sell you, you know, cha- fake Rollies and all, i- if you can get outside of that, and there's a lot of that, and find a, a watch group online, uh, a Facebook group, a Reddit group, whatever, whatever you like. David: What are some of your favorite groups that you like to hang out in, or that you, that you sometimes go to for some of these conversations?

5:10 Christopher: Yeah, so I'm gonna pull this one up. It's brand new. This guy just created it not long ago, and he and I … I, I don't know this person. He lives in New Jersey. He's a big-time watch guy. He travels like crazy for business. And I think it's called Watches, Travels and Adventures. Or it's, if it's not that, it's very close to that. Let me see if I can get the exact- David: And that's a Facebook group? Christopher: That's a Facebook group. Yeah, it's called Watches, Travels and Adventures, and it's a brand-new Facebook group, and at least so far, this group appears to have real people in it.

5:51 David: Hmm. It's very small right now, Chris, Christopher: right? It's very, very small. Okay. Very small. And you know they're real people because, uh, first of all, nobody's tried to do anything stupid since the, the, the, the nickname the guy goes by is Scarsome. I don't know what his real name is. It's clearly not his real name, and he's clearly protecting his- identity, which is fine, but he seems like a real person. Anyway, the guys on here, and there's a few gals as well, they seem very real and everybody's just, you know, enthusiastic about watches and cheering each other on. And he's also, this guy travels a ton, and so a lot of the photos are, you know, I'm, I'm in Dubai and I'm in Singapore or I'm in- How David: about that?

6:31 Christopher: Wisconsin or wherever it is, right? So there's just something fun about that group. You know, there's a whole bunch of other Rolex groups. The Rolex GMT group is pretty good. David: Do they talk about other watches there too, or just purely Rolex? Christopher: Uh, mostly Rolex. Sure. That makes sense. And the Rolex groups, there's a, there's Rolex bigotry, uh, members of the Rolex Sea-Dweller group because the, the JC is part of, uh, the Sea-Dweller line. And so it's just fun to see where, where guys are and what they're doing and, y- you know, some, some folks are incredible photographers. There's a guy that's in all of these watch groups. I, I'll never forget. His name's Scott White, at least that's the name he goes by. Yeah. And he… Do you know who he is?

7:11 David: I don't. Christopher: So he might be the most famous watch collector on Facebook, because what this guy does is he's a fashionista And he modifies his watches all the time. Ah. He puts custom colored dials, custom bezels, custom straps. And so he- he'll take a picture of himself wearing, you know, very expensive pink pants and pink, you know, Givenchy or Gucci loafers and some cool shirt, and he'll be wearing, you know, a Rolex Submariner with a pink, uh, aftermarket bracelet or s- you know, something like that. David: Sure. Christopher: And he's all over most of these groups. And, um, I remember seeing one of these groups a while ago, and somebody was talking about him even though he wasn't on the thread, and some other guy said, "Well, you know, who's Scott White?" And some other guy jumped in and said, "Oh, if you hang out in these Facebook watch groups long enough, you're gonna meet Scott."

8:08 David: That's funny. Quick commercial break here to ask you, have you seen all of the cool resources, downloads, and guides waiting for you at watchsmarts.com? Go check it out. You'll love it. I just went to my car. This is so funny. Not, not now, 'cause I was here with you the whole time, but before we flipped on the mics, I went to my car and I realized, oh my gosh, I have this bag in my trunk from a couple days ago. I forgot to bring in some magazines from Barnes & Noble. Christopher: Right. David: And I picked up, there's this magazine, Watches. The Watches Magazine. Christopher: Yeah. Okay, David: great. I guess that's claiming some kinda category design. The Watches Magazine. The Christopher: Watches, yeah. David: As if there's one.

8:48 And then of course, this is an old-timer, right? Watchtime, yeah. Great. This has been around forever. Watchtime. These are the only two magazines I could find at this particular Barnes & Noble. Are there magazines or online blogs that you follow, either paper publications or online publications? Christopher: Well, uh, yes and no. Uh, so none like that really. David: Okay. Christopher: I like Teddy Baldassarre. David: Oh, yeah. Christopher: Right? And his- David: He's a machine … Christopher: forget buying watches from him for a second, which I think is probably a smart thing to do. I haven't, but I would. I think he's great. First of all- David: Yeah … Christopher: you and I look like maybe we're the same vintage or near enough. David: Yeah. Christopher: And as a guy who came from, you know, nothing and achieved a certain level of, of, of success, in a business context, the most important part of my life now is throwing down a rope to younger people.

9:35 You know, I started with nothing. I have no education. I don't have a GED, and I retired as an operating executive and multimillionaire at 38 years old. God bless America. And so whenever I see younger people doing legendary shit, I love it- Yeah … and I go out of my way to support them. I do that in my lane of tech entrepreneur startups. There are a lot of great young entrepreneurs. There are a lot of great thought leaders who are writing books, and teaching courses, and podcasting, and so forth, who do great work, many of whom have built on our work around category design, which we absolutely love. We, we wrote- Yeah … all our shit on category design. We said it clearly. We are open sourcing category design. Take it and do whatever you want. And so there's all sorts of offshoot podcasts that younger people have done that incorporate the idea.

10:19 Love all of it. Wanna see all of them be successful. Yeah. And so when a guy like Teddy shows up, kinda, I don't know much about his backstory, but out of nowhere and becomes very dominant on the internet, I just love it. I think he's great. I think his videos are great. I think the articles are great. They're incredibly professionally written. So, you know, I look to him. And then, you know, the other one, ChatGPT, Claude, I geek out on watch shit w- with AI all the time. David: What kind of prompts do you put into AI for the, for the watch conversations? Christopher: Oh, I, I mean, you name it. Uh, I'll start off and I'll … So, you know, when I was thinking about getting the Batman, I was like, got on, uh, ChatGPT and started to talk about my collection and my thoughts and the pros and cons of getting a new watch and this and that and the other.

11:04 And ChatGPT's trying to help me build out my collection or not. Mm. 'Cause o- one of the things very few people talk about is if you're buying watches for investment, that's one thing, and we can talk about that. But if you're buying watches 'cause you love them and you want to wear them, you know, I'm now up to nine, which is a great size collection. And every time I get a new So when I get the Batman, I wear the Bruce Wayne and the Deepsea and the Panerais and the Blancpain less, 'cause I buy them to wear them. I love wearing them. So for me to buy a new watch, there's all that thrill of the hunt and the research and watching the videos and all that stuff that's really fun. Um, but then you get the watch, which is really fun, and then you wear the watch and fall in love with the watch, which is really fun, and after about two weeks of falling in love with a new watch, you realize you're not wearing your other watches.

11:55 So when you introduce a new child into the family It's a little bit of a dilemma. And again, it's the, maybe the greatest dilemma one could have. Like, oh David: Now, it sounds like, it sounds like you wear one watch fairly continuously. I've gotten into this weird habit, and again, just the last couple years, I will sometimes wear up to three of my watches in a single 24-hour period. I'll start the day with the Rolex. I'll switch over to the Seiko. I'll pop on a Timex just for fun. I'll go and, you know, grab one of my Bulovas. It's just, I, I… Literally, phases and stages of the day, right? Let's say the morning is errands, the afternoon I've got podcast interviews, and then going out to dinner with friends at night.

12:40 That's three different watches. Christopher: Right. I do it, too. Do you David: also do this? Christopher: Absolutely. You know, as I said, I'm semi-retired. Today I invest, I advise, I write, and I teach and podcast. And so I have tremendous agency over my time. David: Yeah. Christopher: And, uh, I only do the things that I love. And, um, I have my watch box right here. I brought it into the studio. And it… You know, it's in my bedroom where you might expect. And yeah, I'll be going to get a sandwich at lunch, and I'll think, "Let me go into that watch box and see what I got in there." Yeah. The other thing is, not all my watches I would consider a daily, but most of them are very daily. Yeah. Could be dailies, most of… Not all of them.

13:21 I have, I would say I have two that I wouldn't really consider dailies. David: Walk us through the ones that we haven't seen yet, or just talk- Oh … us through the ones we haven't seen. Christopher: Yeah, perfect. So this is the Blancpain. And the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms is the first ever real dive watch. So the Rolex Sub makes a claim to it. What m- the historians will tell you is this watch shipped about a year and a half to two years before the Sub did. Hmm. Now, Blancpain went bankrupt and wasn't building watches for a while, so the Sub is the longest continuously made dive watch. And of course- Yeah it's a legendary watch. I got nothing but praise for the Sub. And if you look at this Fifty Fathoms, it has a much more vintage-y look.

14:06 David: Yes. Christopher: It has a classic look that's a little less tool-y watch and a little more dressy. David: Yeah. Christopher: But not s- too much so. And the other thing, it's hard to tell here, but the bezel is fully lubed. David: Oh, that's cool. Christopher: And that's really cool. And when I first got this Blancpain, Dave, I, I got it on the sail cloth, the black sail cloth- Yeah … 'cause I had so many steel watches. I thought, "Let's do something different." I fucking hated that sail cloth. I kept expecting it to mold to my wrist. It didn't. David: Hmm. Christopher: It didn't feel good. And then I realized something. That movement on the wrist, that feeling of it move around a little bit, goes away with the sail cloth.

14:46 David: Yeah. Christopher: At least it did for me. I couldn't find a way to have it loose enough that I liked it. Where it didn't move around. Anyway, I hated the sailcloth. And so I had this watch for a year and I hardly wore it. And one day I thought, "This is crazy. This is a great watch. I'm not wearing it, and I'm not wearing it 'cause I fricking don't like… I just gotta admit, I don't like this damn strap." David: Yeah. Christopher: So I thought about a NATO strap and, and decided no. And it turns out that Blancpain is famous for this bracelet. It's known to be one of the most comfortable, some people say the most comfortable sports watch diving bracelet. It is- Mm … amazing. It has incredible features.

15:28 Anyway, so I bought the bracelet. David: You went back to the dealer? Christopher: I went back to my dealer. I said, "Get me a bracelet." He got me the bracelet, set it all up, and now I can't take this Blancpain off my wrist. I- David: Now, what a lot of people don't know, and I, I only found this out recently, I, I'm gonna guess the bracelet was, like, 1,000 bucks. Christopher: I actually don't know. And- David: Okay … Christopher: the reason I don't know… So I have a after… I have a gray market AD. I love the guy. His name's Mark Arias. He's turned into a buddy- David: Yeah … Christopher: you know, 'cause we bought jewelry and watches from him over time. He made my… I upgraded my wife's engagement ring, and he did… You know, et cetera, et cetera. Sure. So he's… And he's a local guy.

16:08 His daughter works in the business with him, and she just had- Yeah … some babies. And- David: And you have a real relationship … Christopher: real relationship. His staff's worked with him for 25, 30 years. His- Yeah … his senior guy's been with him forever. He's an amazing guy. So it's just, it's what… I think it's what most watch people or jewelry people really, in my taste, would like. I prefer a local small business person who's a craftsperson. My wife got me a Daytona from Mark. David: Oh. Christopher: And my buddy Flip went to pick it up. I didn't know I was getting it. It was for my birthday, uh, last year. I didn't know this was happening So my buddy Flip goes and picks up the Daytona from Mark, and he realizes- he says, "Oh, do I- have they paid for it already?

16:55 Like, h- I can- am I walking out of the store with this Daytona?" And Mark says, "No, they haven't paid for it, but just, sh- it's fine." And he goes, "What?" He goes, "It's fine. When I'm dealing with Chris Rivera, I'll catch up with him." And so a buddy of mine, who Mark barely knows, walks out with the Daytona, and Mark just puts it on my bill. So I don't know for sure, I think it might have been three grand. Actually, let's see if we can look it up. David: Yeah. Well, my point is, for the folks that don't know, if you have, like, a $20,000 watch, when you go back and get the strap, it's not like 60 bucks or 100 bucks. I mean, there are- No, no, no … for the high-end watches, the bracelet costs more than a medium-end watch, like, $3,000.

17:45 And it's just, it's … That was a very eye-opening learning for me. Christopher: Yeah. I'm just asking ChatGPT how much the bracelet is. Um- David: But it makes perfect sense. I mean, you can't … It's an integrated part of the piece of jewelry. Yeah. It's not like, "Oh, it's gonna be 60 bucks." Like, no, no, it's gonna be quite expensive. Christopher: ChatGPT says the … So this is the Blancpain 45, which is the big, big daddy. David: Yeah. Christopher: 45 mil. 3 to 5,000. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I paid around $3,000 for the bracelet, and as you well know, as you just said, you can buy a lot of legend- There's a ton- David: Great watches … Christopher: great watches in that- For 3K … 3, 3 to 5. If, uh, you know, under 5,000, over 1,000- Yeah that's the sweet spot, right?

18:28 David: Yeah. Christopher: So yeah, for the price of a Blancpain 50 Fathoms bracelet, you can get a world-class legendary watch. I mean, I think you could probably get some Grand Seikos for around five grand. You could certainly get a Longines. You can get, I think, a bunch of IWC. I mean, there's some really great brands that you can get for those price points. David: People love the Tudors now also. Christopher: Oh my God, they're so beautiful. David: Yeah. Christopher: So beautiful. And I, one, one of the things, I love bigger watches, so the thing about the GMTs to me- David: Yeah … Christopher: is they feel tiny. Yeah. They're 40 mil. David: Yeah, exactly. Christopher: And I, I wore Panerai for so long. Every time I put this on, it feels too small. David: Yeah.

19:08 Christopher: But here's the interesting thing that's happened over time. Now that I have them, so I have the two GMTs, I have the, the Daytona, and the other one I'll show you is the Marathon. And I decided, you can get a Marathon in 44 or 45. I decided to get it in the 41 'cause this is my ultimate beater. Mm. This is the only watch- That is contracted with the US military. This is the only watch company that is an official supplier to the US military for non-quartz watches. So I think it's G- I think it's G-SHOCK, Casios, and this watch.

19:49 David: Yeah. Christopher: And this watch is f- same family. Grandson runs the company. They've never built anything with a diamond. They do one thing and one thing only, military, cop. This is called the GSAR, the, uh, government search and rescue watch. Rescue divers wear this watch. Wow. Guys in World War II wore this watch. And this is a 1,500 to maybe $2,000 watch. And I mean, I love this watch. I bought one for my nephew, Cameron. He- Yeah … it's his daily. He loves it. This is a legendary watch for 15,000-ish, maybe $2,000. It's as manly a watch as you're ever gonna wear.

20:29 I would wear this watch with a tuxedo. Yeah. Um, that's just me. And this is a great beater. It's under the radar. It doesn't look like you're wearing a Rolex or anything expensive. You're probably not gonna get, you know, kidnapped for this watch . David: Right. Christopher: Um, and it's an absolute beast workhorse, and it's designed to be no failure, right? The environments in which Marathons are worn, they cannot fail. So I love that one. And then when I first saw the Rolex Yacht-Masters, I didn't like the traditional Yacht-Master look. Mm-hmm. It seemed a little busy to me or, I don't know, something about the way most of the, the, let's just call it more traditional Yacht-Masters looked that I, I didn't dislike them, but I didn't, I didn't, well, I wasn't joning to- jonesing to buy one.

21:13 And then my buddy Mark showed me this, and what this is is the Yacht-Master 42 in white gold on the Oysterflex. David: That's so funny because the dial looks nothing like the white Yacht-Master, the old- No … the old one. Christopher: No, nothing at all. It's not busy. Right. It's clean. It's as clean as a Sub. David: Amazing. Christopher: And look at the bezel. It's a matte bezel. David: Yeah. Christopher: And the markers on it are shiny. David: Oh, nice. Christopher: And- David: That's like a ceramic bezel, right? Christopher: Uh, yeah, absolutely. It's a ceramic- Yeah … bezel. Like I said, I didn't love straps, but this Oysterflex.

21:54 Now, it doesn't move around, so it doesn't give me that movement thing that I really like. It needs to sit a little tighter, I find, than I would normally. However This is such a sexy watch to wear. I love this watch. Yeah. I don't know that I daily it, 'cause it's white gold, which scratches a little bit more easily. David: Yeah. Christopher: But I'm also, I'm, I'm not one of these idiots who loses their mind over scratching their watch. I'm not selling this watch. David: Right. Christopher: You know, the children in my life are gonna get all these things, so- David: Yeah Christopher: I'm gonna wear it. Ev- every scratch is a scar that's a story. So I, I'm just, you know. Now, if it got absolutely mangled, would I love it? No. But anyway, so I, I, I do use this as a little bit more of a special occasion watch.

22:35 I, I will travel with it for sure. I will wear it to business meetings. I, the Oysterflex is incredible, and then it's got this mechanism here that pops open- David: Yeah Christopher: so that you can increase the size of the watch. So, like, if you're on vacation, like, if you go to the Caribbean or Hawaii or somewhere warm, your, your body'll, you know… That's one of the downsides to the Blancpain. Mm-hmm. Um, the bracelet doesn't have an expansion capability, so when you wear it- Right … in Hawaii, it's gonna be tighter than when you wear it in Chicago. Yeah. So this watch has this beautiful movement here in the Oysterflex. The micro David: adjustment. Christopher: Oh, look at David: that. Christopher: The David: micro adjustment. Yeah. No, no tools required. Christopher: No, no, it just, it's a beautiful sliding mechanism, and it just locks, Dave.

23:15 You just pu- push it- David: Very Christopher: cool … like that, and you literally just… I don't know if, here, if you can hear that click. Did you hear that? David: Can't quite make it out- No? … but I believe you. Christopher: It's loud in the room. Yeah. Anyway, this is just an incredibly beautiful watch. Nobody knows what this is. That's the other thing, too. Nobody knows you're wearing, what you're wearing. Mm-hmm. And man, does it ever… You know, if the other two watches are called the Batman and the Bruce Wayne, then this has gotta be the Dark Knight. I mean, it's just, I love this Yacht-Master. True. I waited for it for a while. It was a little tougher to get ahold of. Um, Mark got it for me. When he showed me this watch, I lost my mind. It's a 42- Yeah … which is a great size for me. It's bigger than the 40s, little less than the 44s and 45s, so it's a great… I love a 42 size.

24:00 This is really great. Yeah. And, um, a- again, I wear it a little bit more of a special occasion watch. I will travel with it. I will wear it to a business meeting. Uh, but I, I absolutely love this watch. I think it's, I think the Yacht-Master II on white gold or rose gold, my wife has the gals one in rose gold. David: Mm. Christopher: I think it's a 32 maybe. David: Yeah. Christopher: Holy God, is it beautiful. Mm. It is a stunner. So that, that's the other fun th- and I know this sounds terrible to certain people and whatever, but we're watch nerding out here. It's, it is a little f- like, I wouldn't wanna wear the same sweatshirt as my wife at the same time. David: Right.

24:41 Christopher: But it is a little fun wearing the same … So if we go out to dinner and we're both wearing the Yacht-Masters on that Do you do, David: like, the double wrist shot? Have you done that? Christopher: Y- you have to do that every once in a while. Yeah, you have to do that. It's just, it's just, it's just part of the program. And then the last but not least is this Daytona, and there's a interesting story about this, and this is where having a great gray market AD, I think, really matters. So we're at dinner, I'm wearing my James Cameron, we're talking about watches with Mark and his wife, me and my wife, and there's a young man sitting at the next table, and he's got a black dial Daytona. David: Hmm. Christopher: And we're talking about how beautiful that is and this and that and the other, and we start talking about how much we love the Platona, right, which is the platinum Daytona with the light blue face and the brown bezel.

25:30 It's just beautiful. Oh, yeah, that's David: sharp. Yeah. Christopher: But I think it retails for maybe, I don't know, 75 or 100, and it, it sells on the aftermarket for, you know, well over that, maybe 200. And, uh, I'm just not paying 200,000 dollars for a watch. I'm just- Right … not gonna do that. I think my next watch might be a Vacheron, but again, I'm not gonna go There's just … You know, I just … I don't … And I also don't live in a world like that. I live in a beach town and, you know, I'm in flip-flops a lot of the time, and so I'm just not gonna spend 200 grand or whatever. That, that- Right … I, I, I don't wanna go to that level, just like I don't want a Lamborghini. I could, I just don't want one. Sure. Anyway, love the watch, and so we start talking about the, the Platona and how beautiful it is. My wife loves it, wants me to get it, is trying to talk me into it, and I'm going, "I'm just not gonna spend that." And Mark goes, "Well, we could build you one." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "I'll buy a Daytona and we'll put aftermarket bezel and aftermarket dial on it for you, and it'll look like a Platona, but you won't spend Platona money."

26:33 And I said, "That's a great idea." And so here it is. David: Wow. Christopher: It is absolutely beautiful. It wears incredibly well. And we took a black Daytona and we souped it up. And so I just th- you know, I'm a longtime, uh, Mustang fan, and one of the great things about Mustangs, of course, is you can do all this stuff to them in the aftermarket. They're sort of built for that. And so this is my little Scott White. You know, Scott does this all the time. There's a lot of people in the, uh, watch world, the Rolex world, who consider this a Frankenstein watch. I want what I want. I like what I like. I don't really wanna spend 200 grand. This watch was 10% the price. Yeah. And I got this beautiful watch, and it is a Rolex.

27:17 It's amazing. And so, uh, I have all the fun and I have most of the money. David: That's true. Oh, my gosh. So good. Christopher: So that's the whole collection. That's all, all nine. So I've got, let's see, one, two, three, four, yeah, five Rolies, two Panerais, and the Marathon. David: Nice. Christopher: Oh, and of course the Blancpain, which I'm currently wearing. David: Amazing. Hey, David Newman here with a quick commercial break. Have you seen our social media channels that have video snippets from our favorite interviews? Check us out on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. Now, back to the episode. Well, as we're landing the plane, we just have two pieces of business left.

27:58 Piece of business number one is I always like to ask my guests a lightning round, which is kind of a very quick A or B kinda quiz. And then any f- I'm gonna throw it to you, Christopher, for any final thoughts or parting words of wisdom for folks that are looking to get into or further into the watch obsession that you and I both share. Are you ready for the lightning round? I'm ready. Christopher: Okay. I'm ready, David. Let's go. David: Question numero uno, strap or bracelet? Christopher: Bracelet all day, not even close for me. David: Vintage or modern? Christopher: Uh, m- modern mostly, because- David: One great watch or five good ones? Christopher: Well, it depends on what your definition of is is, like Bill Clinton taught us, but I think five good ones.

28:43 David: Okay. Christopher: I'd rather have five awesome Rollies and Panerais and, and Blancpains than one Patek. And look, I love Patek Philippe, but I, I'm not gonna buy that watch. I have nowhere to wear that watch. Yeah. And it's not kinda my lifestyle. I do think I would wear a, a Vacheron Overseas, and that's kinda what I have my eyes on next. Yeah. But I'm, I'm in, I'm in no hurry. I really love… I, you know, I got to this collection very fast- David: Yeah … Christopher: and I decided after I got the Batman that I was gonna put the brakes on- David: Yeah … Christopher: and just enjoy what I have. And, you know, maybe at a milestone or something like that, if one of the companies- Sure … I'm advising goes public or is acquired or, or a child is born or, you know, big anniversary maybe.

29:25 But, uh, right now I'm kinda holding fast. Okay. So yeah, I think, I think having a couple is really, really fun. That said, if you have one grail watch in mind, and you can af- only afford one, and I was in that place for a very, very long time where I couldn't afford my grail watch, but I could afford something that I liked. I had a Zodiac watch once and, you know- Yeah … trying to get in the game. By all mean… Listen, if you, if you fall in love with a Seiko, fall in love with a Seiko. The Seiko divers are unbelievable. Longines just came out with an upgrade to their divers. They look gorgeous. Yeah. And I don't know, they're $3,000 or $4,000. I think it's fun to have more than one. That said, I also love the guys like my dad. My dad has worn the same Rollie every freaking day, doing every freaking thing since 1973.

30:11 Yeah. His whole life is in that one watch, and there's something very romantic about that. There's something very cool about that. So I think it's a preference thing, but in general, I think most of us would like to mix it up a little bit. So if you, if you can afford three or four good to great or one legendary expensive, m- I think I'd do the more versus the less, but. David: Okay. Next question. I think I know your answer based on our conversation. Buy new or hunt for pre-owned? Christopher: So I have mostly bought new, because there's something fun about new, and there's something about all the scratches and all the history going into it. That said, listen, I've been looking for a late-'60s Sea-Dweller for quite some time.

30:58 So I currently don't… I have had vintage watches. I don't have one now. Yeah. And I will have one. I'm not sure what it'll be. I also I had this experience recently. I, um, I was in Las Vegas with my mother. I took my mother to see Jerry Seinfeld for her 80th birthday. Nice. And we rolled into a dealer there, and I tried on an all-gold Blackface Sub. It was shockingly gorgeous. I never thought I'd want a fully gold Rolex, never. David: Mm. Christopher: It was a stunner. Uh, and they wouldn't sell it to me , but that's okay. So, um, I think- But David: with the price of gold, that must cost a fortune these days.

31:42 Christopher: I think it was around 50. David: Oh, that's not bad. Christopher: It wasn't, uh, it wasn't 100, and, uh, yeah. Right. I, it was around 50. I, I don't think it was 60. Yeah, I think I … Maybe out the door with taxes- Yeah … but it was in that sort of range. But, you know, I now think that, uh, is there a place in my life for, um, a vintage gold Rollie? There probably is. A vintage Bluesy might be really cool. David: Yes, the Smurf. Christopher: Right, uh, the Smurf might be very cool. So yeah, I will have a vintage watch again probably in the next few years. I, I decided with this run that I wanted the new . I like the longer power reserves.

32:23 I like that they're tougher than they used to be, although they've always been really tough. I'm hard on my watches. I bash my head all the time. I've had a million concussions. I slam into things. I … You know, so my watches are gonna get hit into things and abused and all that kinda stuff. And so- David: Right … Christopher: as I recaught the disease, I went all new, but I will add a, a couple of vintage pieces for sure. They're beautiful, and th- Yeah … and they're somebody else's history, and there's ghosts in the watch, and yeah. David: For sure. Final lightning round question, loud watch or quiet watch? Christopher: I don't care. Watch that I love. I, I don't wear watches for other people like we talked about. Sure. No one even notices them. I'm not trying to impress anybody with my watch.

33:05 I'm not that guy. And so yeah, it's really a function of wh- when you look at that watch Do you feel what I just feel when I just did that and looked at this Blancpain and went, "Fuck yeah." That's awesome. Yeah. And if you feel that way and it's a gold Rollie, wear your gold Rollie. Or if you want one with a bunch of fucking diamonds in it, you want a, you, you want a Day-Date Presidential in gold with diamonds 'cause it makes you feel like a boss, have at it. Go for it. David: Go for it. Well, as we're landing here, uh, and, and maybe that was it, maybe that was the final words of wisdom, but are there any additional final words of wisdom or parting thoughts you'd like to leave our listeners?

33:49 Christopher: Yeah, uh, maybe a couple, particularly if you're starting out. No matter what, invest in quality. Buy great watches made by great people, period. Right? Whether it's a, a Marathon that is three or four generations, same family, or, you know, Rolex makes apparently a million watches a year. I've heard it's actually more than that, but whatever it is, they make a lot of watches. And make no mistake, they're incredibly well-made. They're bomb shelters. Uh, and s- and Omega's not my taste, but I appreciate them and, and, and love them, and guys who have them, God bless you. I, I, uh, nothing against them, it's just not to my eye generally. Mm-hmm. Uh, and there's a lot of smaller manufacturers that have been around since the 1700s, you know?

34:33 And so I think buy what you love, invest in quality, don't buy a piece of junk. And the other thing, if you're gonna build a collection, you know, I have over-rotated on watches that you can daily, on purpose. That said, I didn't try to make every watch do the same thing or f- make me feel the same way. And so as you're building your collection out, think about what are the different experiences you wanna have wearing a watch. And there'll be some overlap, of course. Is there some overlap in the feeling I have wearing a Blancpain and the James Cameron Deepsea? Yeah, it's a f- similar feel watch. However, you know, just like Slash, Slash has one of the largest collections of Gibson Les Pauls in the world.

35:22 And every once in a while he plays an Ibanez, but in general, I think probably around 90% of the time, Slash is playing Les Pauls. Now, why would you need, if it's the same guitar, why would you need 10,000 of them, or whatever he's got, right? Well, what he would tell you, and I've seen the interviews, is that this one has this feel, and this one has that feel, and this one I took on this tour, and this one we recorded this record with, and this one I picked up from this unbelievable hero of mine who… You know, whatever the stories are with the guitars, right? And the reality is, with effects pedals today and computers today, you can make any guitar sound like anything.

36:04 You can take a Stratocaster and make it sound like Jimmy Page's Les Paul. You can do that. So y- you don't need it to be in the guitar, just like you don't need a watch. And the different guitars make Slash feel different, and they have different memories a- and so forth. And so it's a little bit like that with watches, or I think a lot like that with watches. And so a- as you go to build a collection, think about, okay, what is it, what is it I'm trying to accomplish here that I don't have? What's this slight vary… If you're, if you're like me and you're on a theme, because most of my… Well, yeah, all of my watches are tool watches All of my watches are kind of more rugged, more masculine, if you will.

36:48 That's what I like. Could you argue that I need, you know, a Cartier Tank? Sure. I don't wanna wear a Cartier Tank. It's a beautiful watch. I had a Cartier Pasha one time. It was incredible watch. I don't wanna wear that watch either. No. It's too dressy for me and my lifestyle today. So my point in all that is just even if you like watches that are very similar in a theme, in a category, mine are dive and tool watches, don't try to buy a watch that does everything every time. David: And to quote your stepmom, "I'm glad you love it." Christopher: Right. David: Glad you love it. Christopher: If you don't love it, don't buy it. Yes. And if by chance, like this Blancpain, you buy it and you don't like it, figure out why you don't like it.

37:31 Oh, is, is it the watch? No, I don't think it's the watch. The watch is incredible. Oh, it's the strap. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, it took me a year to figure out I hated the strap. Okay, then I unfucked the watch, and now I can't take it off, right? And so you like what you like. And again, if you said to me I could only have this Blancpain, I probably wouldn't pick that as my only watch. Yeah. I would pick the Deepsea. But I'm not trying to … I didn't get the Blancpain to replace the Deepsea. I'm not gonna dive with the Blancpain. I'm just not. It's a beautiful watch. It's a l- more dressy than the Deepsea, and if I smash the bezel on the side of a, of a tank or a boat, that would be a giant bummer. So this will be a dress watch.

38:13 It'll go in the pool. It'll go for a swim in the ocean, but it ain't going diving, whereas the Deepsea is going to the deep sea. David: Yes. Christopher: So don't try to do, get every watch to do everything is what I'm trying to communicate. David: I love that. Absolutely right. Well, Christopher Lockhead, thank you for being with us. I don't think any man listening to this show, back in part one we were talking about stepping out of the shower and catching a glimpse of yourself in the mirror. No one is gonna be doing that the same way after today. Thank you, my friend. Thanks for being on with us. Christopher: God bless you, dude. David: And that wraps up another episode of Watch Smarts. Listen, if you love this show, if you love watches, subscribe, download, leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast platform, and check out all the free resources waiting for you at watchsmarts.com.